By our foreign staff 13/05/2008 -German archaeologists have claimed to have found one of the fabled resting places of the Ark of the Covenant, the chest holding the Ten Commandments which gave the ancient Israelites their power.
The University of Hamburg say its researchers have found the remains of the 10th century BC palace of the Queen of Sheba in Axum, Ethiopia, and an altar which at one time reputedly held the precious treasure.
Archaeologist Helmut Ziegert, who is leading the dig said: “From the dating, its position and the details that we have found, I am sure that this is the palace.”
Ethiopian legends holds that the Ark was taken to the palace of the Queen of Sheba by King Solomon, the king of the Jews, after they fell in love.
After the Queen’s death her son, Menelek, rebuilt the palace and dedicated it to the cult of Sirius, but kept the Ark in its resting place there.
The team said evidence at the site included Sirius symbols, the debris of sacrifices and the alignment of sacred buildings to the rising-point of Sirius, the brightest star in the sky.
“The results we have suggest that a Cult of Sothis developed in Ethiopia with the arrival of Judaism and the Ark of the Covenant and continued until 600 AD,” the university said. Sothis is the ancient Greek name for Sirius.
The German research, which began in 1999, is aimed at documenting the origins of the Ethiopian state and the Ethiopian Orthodox Church.
The hunt for the Ark, which featured in the Indiana Jones film Raiders of the Lost Ark, has become almost as legendary as the artefact itself.
The 1981 film has the artefact recovered by the Nazis from a resting place in the “Well of Souls” in Tanis, Egypt – not to be confused with the Well of Souls on Temple Mount, Jerusalem.
The Nazi treasure hunters are later killed when the Ark is opened.
The Old Testament recounts that Moses, on leading the Israelites from Egypt, received the Ten Commandments from God on Mount Sinai.
These Commandments, written on stone tablets, were later placed in a chest made from acacia wood, plated with gold and topped with two golden angels. This was the Ark of the Covenant.
The Ark was then kept in the Temple of Solomon Jerusalem for centuries, according to the Old Testament.
After Jerusalem was conquered by the Babylonians in the 6th century BC, the Bible and it entered the realm of legend.
Ethiopian tradition claims that the Ark was moved to Axum from Jerusalem in 10th century BC.
A sect in Ethiopia maintains that the Ark is kept at the church of St Mary of Zion, but the site is defended by monks and only one guardian is allowed to see it, making the claim impossible to verify.
Story from Telegraph News.
May 13th, 2008 at 10:10 am
የሰው ልጅ ከጠላቱ ዲያብሎስ ጋር በመተባበር እስከ አለም ፍጻሜ ድረስ በተለያየ መንገድ እውነተኛዋን የኦርቶዶክስ ተዋህዶ እምነት ለማጥፋት ከሚጠቀምባቸው መንገዶች አንዱ በዘመኑ ሥልጣኔ ተራቀናል በሚሉ ጠበብቶች ነው:: ዓላማው ደግሞ ኢትዮጵያና የተዋህዶ አማንያንን በትውፊትና በትውልድ ያገኙትንና የሚመሩበትን ቀኖና ቤተ ክርስቲያን ለማስተባበልና የዘመኑ ትውልድ ተጠራጣሪ እንዲሆንና ሌላው ዓለም አምኖ እንዳይቀበል ማድረግ ነው:: ለዚህ ነው እምነት የሌላቸውና መጽሐፍ ቅዱስን አናምንም የሚሉ ሳይንቲስቶች ነገር ግን መጽሐፍ ቅዱስ በሚስጢር ኪሳቸው ይዘው ልክ በታምር እና በልዩ ጥበባቸው ቦታውን አግኝተው አፈላልገው እንዳገኙት በመራቀቅ አዲስ ግኝት እያሉ የሚአወናብዱን:: ሠይጣን ሙሉ ዕውቀት እንደሌለው የሚያሳየው
በአንድ በኩል ሊያሳሰት የሚጠቀምበትን መረጃ የእግዚአብሔርን ጥበብ የተላበሱት የኦርቶዶክስ ተዋህዶ አማንያን ግን ሳይወጡ ሳይወርዱ ሚስጢሩን ይግልጽላቸዋል:: እንዲያውም እውነተኛዋ የሰው ልጅ መገኛ፣ አሁንም የሙሴ ጽላት ተገኘባት ብሎ ሳይወድ በግድ እየመሰከረልን ነው:: ሉሲ 3.5 ሚሊዮን ዓመት አላት፣ ዕውነተኛው ጽላት በንግሥት ሳባ ወይም በምኒልክ ቤተ መንግሥት ተገኘ የሚሉትን የሳይንቲስቶች የምርምር ውጤት ከእውነቱ ጋር ለማመሳከር ችግር የለብንም:: እንኳን ሌላ ቦታ ወይም ሀገር አልወሰዳችሁን እንጂ! ሉሲ ዕድሜዋ ሳይሆን ወይም በየሀገሩ ለንግድ ብትዘዋወርም ኢትዮጵያንና የሰው ልጅ መፈጠሪያነቷን ስለምትመሰክርልን ደስ ይለናል:: ጽላቱም
ከኢትዮጵያ ተገኘ ብላችሁ ነግዱበት::ለእኛ ግን የት እንዳለ ለምናውቀው ምስክርነታችሁ ያተርፈናል:: የእግዚአብሔር መንግሥት በገንዘብ ወይም በሥጋዊ ጥበብ ሳይሆን የምትገኘው
በእምነትና በደጅ ጥናት ነው:: እምነታችንንና ደጅ መጥናታችንን አናቋርጥም:: “የሲኦል ደጆች ያንገላቷታል ሊያጠፏት ግን አይችሉም” የተባለችው ቤተክርስቲያናችን በኦርቶዶክስ ተዋህዶ እምነቷ ጸንታ እስከ አለም ፍጻሜ ትቆያለች በስብከተ ሀገር ኢትዮጵያ:: ቅዱስ አምላኳ ይጠብቀን አሜን::
May 13th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
The audacity of these western so called archeological diggers and the gullibility of the media are, simply breathtaking. Our church fathers have been saying for ages that the Ark of the Covenant is in Ethiopia, its rightful place, and visitors are not allowed to the holy of holies, thank you very much!
It seems to me they all are behaving like a small kitten playing with a dead mouse, it already knows where the mouse is, but still pretends to hunt it down and catch it all over again. In the middle ages it was Templar Nights, then the British diggers, the American Archeological Society, then it was the sensational writers like Graham Hancock (author of the Sign and the Seal), and now it is the German diggers. Hooooray to the Germans!
P.S. Well said Sema Belew…
May 13th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
‘Sema belew’
What’s your point here?? I think you just heard only the preachers legend! Albert einestine was not orthodox or even others! Did you want to talk about Christianity or what?? it’s not clear!!
From space travel to organ transplants, one of the most important influences shaping the modern world is science.Amazingly, people who lived during the Civil War had more in common with Abraham than with us. If Christians are going to speak to that world and interact with it responsibly, they must interact with science.
Let me give you some tips how to believe in an old earth and still be a christian. Spiritual death, with the eternal possibilities of heaven and hell, began with Adam and Eve. They were the first humans to have this option. But physical death for the animal kingdom has been here long before Adam ever walked the earth. Adam introduced mankind to physical death through his sin.
Concerning age, the creation itself testifies to its age. Job 12:8 says “Speak to the earth, and it will teach you.” Fortunately, none of the objections of young earth proponents carries any weight. You can be 100% confident that you can be a Christian, and believe in an old earth.
About the word ‘GOD’
Ancient Hebrew is very fascinating. Unlike our language, the individual letters have meaning. For example the Hebrew word for “God” is transliterated as “AL” and is made up of two Hebrew character letters, namely “Aleph” and “Lamed”. “Aleph” in the ancient form is written as a pictograph that looks like an Ox head and has the meaning of “strong” or “powerful”.”Lamed” in the ancient form is written as a pictograph that looks like a sheperd staff and has the meaning of “treacher”. So “God” is the “strong powerful leader and teacher” - a pretty accuarate description of “God”.
May 13th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
There is Ark or anything of that nature. King Solomon lived about 800 years before the so called queen of sheeba. She was a yemeni queen and not of Ethiopia. All these legend came from the time of the writing of Kibre Negest, around the 1100-1200 AD,the era better known as “Yechelema Zemen”. Dr. Lapiso Delabo and Dr. Tamrat(author of Histry of the Ethiopian churh) have proved this some years ago. But despite this the legend remains. The Ethiopian church is the main culprit in sustaining this historical lies.
May 13th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
በቅድሚያ ሱራፌል ለሰጡት ተጨማሪ አስተያዬት አመሰግናለሁ::
እንዲሁም በ lilleswed በኩል የቀረበልኝን ጥያቄና አስተያዬት የተረዳሁት በአንድ በኩል እኔ የክርስትናን ሃይማኖት በአፈ ታሪክና በሰባኪዎች ትምህርት ብቻ የማምን ስለ ሳይንስና ሳይንቲስቶች ግን ብዙም ዕውቀት የሌለኝ አድርገው ለመተቸት ሲሞክሩ በሌላ በኩል ደግሞ ምድርን የሚመረምራት ሃይማኖት ሳይሆን ሳይንስ መሆኑን የሳይንስ ጥበብ ደግሞ የክርስትና እምነት ላላቸው ሳይሆን ላልሆኑትም የተሰጠ ፀጋ አድርገው አቅርበውታል:: በመጨረሻ ደግሞ “የጥብብ መጀመሪያ እግዚአብሔርን መፍራት ነው” የሚለውን “ኃይለኛው መሪና አስተማሪ እግዚአብሔር ነው” በሚል አስተያየትዎን አሳርገዋል::ጥሬ ቃሉን በግርድፉ ተርጉሜ ስረዳወ:: ምን አልባት “ኃይልና ጥበብ
የፈጣሪአችን የእግዚአብሔር ብቻ ነው ለማለት ከሆነ እስማማበታለሁ ወይም አንድ ነን::
በትክክል ሀሳበዎን ተረድቼው ከሆነ በክርስትና ዕምነት/ኦርቶዶክስ ተዋህዶ/ተከታይነቴ የሰው ልጅ ከተፈጠረበት ጊዜ ጀምሮ ጥበብና ዕውቀትን ያገኘው ከፈጠረው አምላኩ ሲሆን አሰጣጡ ደግሞ ጊዜና ወቅትን እየጠበቀ ለሁሉም የሰው ልጆች በእኩልነት ነው:: ይህም ለክርስትና ተከታይ ወይም ለእከሌ ብሎ አይመርጥም:: ለሁሉም አኩል ፀሐይን እንደሚያወጣለትና ሌላውንም…ዋናው የሰው ልጅ በራሱ ዕውቀትና ጥበብ ሊኖረው እንዳማይችልና ነገር ግን ከፈጣሪው ያገኘውን ጥበብ በራሱ ፈቃድ ለሚፈልገው ፍጆታ ማዋል እንደሚችል ነፃ ፈቃድ/ከሕግና ትዕዛዝ ጋር/ እንደተሰጠው ነው:: እዚህ ላይ ጥበበኛውም ሆነ የጥበቡ ተጠቃሚ በተሰጠው የሂሊና ዳኝነት ተጠቅሞ የጥበብን ግኝት አጠቃቀም እግዚአብሔር በሚወደው ወይም በህጉ ነው ወይስ በተቃራኒው ነው መጠቀም ያለብኝ ብሎ መወሰን አለበት:: በዚህ ውሳኔው የመጨረሻ ፍርዱን በፈጣሪው ያገኝበታልና “ህግ የሚያውቁት በህግ፣ ህግን የማያውቁ ያለህግ ይፈረድባቸዋል”በሚለው ቃሉ መሠረት::ለዚህ ደግሞ በሃይማኖት ሆነን የእግዚአብሔርን ህልውና ማወቅና በዘመናችን የምናገኘውን ጥበብ አጠቃቀም እንወቅበት በሚል ዕምነቴ ነው አስተያየቴን ያቀረብኩት:: አመሰግናለሁ::
May 13th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
Dear abebech,
It is really saddening to witness Ethiopians like you, negating their heritage and history in an Internet forum, for God knows what. It is a well known fact that Haile Selassie was placed between a rock and hard place, when he had to choose between leaving a swat of his southern population to wallow in ignorance for years to come or allow missionaries of mischievous intent, to open schools to educate and proselytize people like Dr. Lapiso and yourself. I am sure a bulk of Dr. Lapiso’s work was referencing back to the works of those same racist missionaries and/or their predecessors. I tell you, it is garbage-in & garbage-out, out there in the ‘let’s keep the natives pride-in-check land’. I would like to tell you that, I don’t believe in the supremacy of one religion over any other. But when religion is being used as a tool, to twist and thwart a nation’s history; that I will never accept my friend.
I am not going to dignify your galloping hasty conclusion, by arguing with you about the Ark. Let’s agree to leave that to the people who, after much research and soul searching, excavation and expedition, have grudgingly reached to the conclusion that; in fact the Ark of the Covenant is in Ethiopia. Just because the Ark is not displayed in an oak paneled glass at the Disney Land or the Louvre, does not mean it doesn’t exist.
May 13th, 2008 at 11:28 pm
ለአበበች: ለላጲሶና: ራሳቸውን ክደው ለኢትዮጵያና ለቅድስት ቤተ ክርስቲያናችን ታሪካዊ ጠላቶች በማደር ድንጋይ ለሚያቀብሉና ራሳቸውም ለሚወረውሩ አሣፋሪ ፍጥረቶች ለሆኑ ለ”ጴንጤዎች” እና “ተሐድሶ” ነን ባዮች የውስጥ አርበኞችና ሌሎችም መናፍቃን በሙሉ…….
ይኸውላችሁ እግዚአብሔር የበለአምን አህያ አንደበት ስጥቶ እንዳናገራት ሁሉ (ዘኅ-ልቁ 22:28) ዛሬ ደግሞ እናንተ በእጃችሁ የያዛችሁት ወርቅ መዳብ ሆኖባችሁ ማንነታችሁን የካዳችሁ ሁሉ አንድ አፍታ ቆም ብላችሁ የራሳችሁን ማንነት ትገነዘቡት ዘንድ የጀርመኖችን አንደበት ክፍቶ ዛሬም እያናገራችሁ ስለሆነ ወደ ልቦናችሁ ተመልሳችሁ አባቶቻችሁና ታሪክ ሊያስረዱአችሁ ሲቧግቱ የኖሩበትን እውነት ለመመርመር ሞክሩ::
አገራችሁ የሐቅ ታሪክ የተከመረባት የእውነት አውድማ እንጂ እነ ላጲሶ ሰምተው እንደሚያስተጋቡት “ተረት ተረትና” የፈጠራ ታሪክ የሚፈበረክባት “ሆሊ ዉድ” አይደለችም:: እባካችሁን ለማንነታችሁ ተጨማሪ ምስክር የምትፈልጉ ቢሆን እነኳ ቢያንስ ቢያንስ እንደ አበበችና እንደ ላጲሶ ራሳችሁን ማዋረድ ብታቆሙ ባለ ውለታዎቻችን ትሆናላችሁ::
እናንተ ልባችሁን ደፍናችሁ. ዓይኖቻችሁን ጨፍናችሁ. ጆሮዎቻችሁን ዝገታችሁ ዛሬ ድረስ ተቀምጣችኋል:: ዓለም ግን ለታሪክ ቁፋሮ አካፋውንና ዶማውን እንዲሁም ለታሪክ መመዝገቢያ ብራናውን ከቀለሙ እየያዘ እናንተ ወደናቃችኋት ቅድስት ምድር ኢትዮጵያ እየመጣ ከርሰ ምድሯን በመበርበር ላይ ይገኛል:: ኑና ወደ ቤታችሁ ተመለሱና ከኛ ጋር ደስ ይበላችሁ እንጂ አትከፉ!! በማንነታችሁ ኩሩ እነጂ አትፈሩ!! የታሪክ ዲታዎች እንጂ ድሀዎች አይደላችሁም.. ስለዚህ ወደ ማንነታችሁ ተመለሱ!!!! አልረፈደባችሁም….
May 14th, 2008 at 9:48 am
i want to be a members of you
May 14th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
Ato Surafel;
There is no need to justify a false histry. I am not here to rob my country of its histry. That’d be robing myself!
I wonder how comfortable you are dismissing the historians Dr. Tamrat Tadesse and Dr. Lapiso. And your avoidance of the work of Dr. Tamrat that disproves the legend of Queen Sheeba to be just a legend is comical.
I want to ask all those Ethiopians who still cling to the church fabricated legend two questions:
1- What were the years when king Solomon ruled Israel?
2- What were the years when quenn Sheeba ruled ?
Surafel, please do not persist on emotional conclusions that can only
presrve ignorance.
Further, please note that there is no book or no Ark (or what ever is being peddled as the work of god) that fell down from the sky. A these are man made things. Emperor Haile Selassie was a good king, but do you think that he was from the lion of Judah and God ordained?
Ethiopia do not need all these mumbo jumbo fantastics inorder to be part of the human histry.
What is surprising is that at this modern times of the Internet we still are arguing about some supernatural bullshit with some one who is arrogant enough to ridicule inquiring Ethiopians.
Check it out, Surafel.
May 15th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Dear abebech,
Whether the Ark of the Covenant was hurled down from heaven or manmade is neither here nor there. The fact is it existed and if you read the article, it says I quote: “The University of Hamburg say its researchers have found the remains of the 10th century BC palace of the Queen of Sheba in Axum, Ethiopia, and an altar which at one time reputedly held the precious treasure.”
And the last time I checked my map, Axum was still in Ethiopia, however if the TPLF thugs have managed to hand over Axum to Yemen, unknown to Ethiopians, please accept my apologies.
You have of course every right to be indignant, especially in this modern day of the Internet, arguing about some ‘supernatural BS’. My friend here is what the ‘Great Internet’ has to say about our illustrious queen ‘en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_of_Sheba’ and here is what it says about the ‘super natural bullshit’ ‘en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ark_of_the_Covenant’. Since your skepticism about the Ethiopian church knows no bounds, as an added precaution I would like to reaffirm to you, that Wikipedia is neither published nor maintained by the EOTC (Ethiopian Orthodox Church).
Sister, may peace be with you – Amen…..
May 15th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
None of the above bluffers got the tips! Nobody said or is sure that the ark is found in Ethiopia. The scripts talk about the long tradition kept in Ethiopia. The belief comes from the orthodox church that doesnät accept changes or live only in it’s old beliefs that is most probably a legend. Those of you who are cursing others(protestants, budhists, islam etc) doesn’t even know about yourself and where you come from. Orthodox itself is imported from abroad and so do others. Ethiopians accepted what others said but not witnessed what happened. Don’t forget that we were practicing judaism in the ancient times.
A view which has received little attention until the past decade has now been popularized by a recent book. The Sign and the Seal: The Quest for the Lost Ark of the Covenant, by British journalist Graham Hancock. According to this view, the Ark of the Covenant was taken from ancient Jerusalem in the days of King Solomon. While there are numerous variations of the story, the common thread centers on a son fathered by Israelite King Solomon and born to the Queen of Sheba. While this union is not mentioned in the Biblical account of the meeting between these two monarchs (1 Kings 10), it has a long tradition in Ethiopia, a suggested location of ancient Sheba.
This son, named Menelik, is said to have brought the Ark to his country for safe keeping, according to an account preserved in the Ethiopian royal chronicles. This story has also been boosted by the now famous Black Jews of Ethiopia, the Falashas. These black Africans, practicing a very ancient form of Judaism, received international attention when an Israeli military action airlifted them to freedom from political persecution in 1976.
Associates for Biblical Research have not been involved in any efforts to retrieve the Ark. Obviously, it would be one of the greatest artifacts of all time. But archaeology is not a treasure hunt, and the Bible does not need the recovered Ark to be proved accurate.
May 16th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
Ato Surafel;
You are still avoiding my questions.
When did King Solomon ruled?
When did Queen Sheeba ruled?
These are simple question and if you dare try to answer you will shed some light on the legend that you still cling to.
Here I want to thank you for reminding me about Aksum. Do you know aksum was an AD city? How in the world is Aksum the “city of the Queen” who “had” a son from an Israelli king who lived, not in AD, but in BC?
Please answer these questions when you decide to continue arguing. What a university, any university, “found” is subject to further study. But you are still confusing the issue. Let me explain:
As far as the legend of the Ark and the queen are concerned they are snugly fitted with the city of Aksum. Now you are saying a university found a remain of some city(not Aksum?) in Aksum. This is very confusing until we humans study it.
May 16th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
Dear Abebech and lilleswed
I think you are trying to preach us your anti- Ethiopia and the Orthodox Tewahedo faith by presenting your confused analyisis.
I have the following questions to both of you which can answer your questions and disqualify the doubts you have about Ethiopian history and our faith. This also help us to know why you are serious and concerned about our faith and Ethiopian history.
1. If you are not recoginze the existance of ancient Ethiopia what is your origin of country? and tell us its history with out refering our faith and Bible.
2. If you are not Orthodox Tewahedo believers what is your religion? If our religion is a false legend please, proof us how your faith is perfect and has a true history rather than focusing on criticizing the Orthodox Tewahedo.
3. Please, explain us how and when you became member of your faith.
4. It is undeniable fact that Old Testament is imported from out side/ Israel to Ethiopia . But when and how other religions including your faith introduced to Ethiopia? Can you tell us the indigenous religion of Ethiopia or what ever you call our mother land at its ancient era ? Do you think that imported religion is not true and should not be accepted ?
Your answer for these questions are helping you to know more about our faith perfection. The Orthodox Tewahedo believiers are attracted by the spiritual power of God not only by preaching or the logic of human scientists analysis and has its own effect on everyone`s daily life.
Thank you!
May 16th, 2008 at 10:46 pm
Dear abebech,
Here are some answers to your questions:
King Solomon became a ruler approximately in 967 B.C.E.
Queen of Sheba is widely believed to have ruled in 10 B.C.E.
We all know that 10th B.C.E means the time between 900 B.C.E and 1000 B.C.E.
Obviously these two rulers were contemporaries, just like you and I are contemporaries; that is belonging to the same period of time.
As to the Yemenis’ claim to the Queen of Sheba, I am afraid there is some merit to that. You see my friend, during the time of the Queen of Sheba, Ethiopia was a powerful seafaring nation with a vast empire that included both sides of the Red Sea as well as the eastern coasts of Africa along the Indian Ocean. To give you a better picture, our Queen of Sheba was more or less, the ruler of modern day Ethiopia, Nubia (The Sudan), Somalia, Kenya, Tanzania, Mozambique, South Africa, Madagascar, Yemen and Saudi Arabia.
Therefore the Yemenis claim that the Queen of Sheba was theirs is just like an Indian or Pakistani today, saying that in 1840 Victoria was their queen.
I hope and pray everything is clear to you by now.
May 17th, 2008 at 11:32 am
Ato Surafel;
The city of Aksum is,according to the legend, directly connected with queen Sheeba. So is the Ark. It’s amazing now to see now new stories of Sheeba in BC yrs. This is a first. But what are we gonna do about Aksum? are we to look to another city in and around aksum that could fit to the legend?(Aksum is an AD city, right?)
You see, this new discovery of an ancient “Aksum” will be tested in due time.
May 17th, 2008 at 11:48 am
Dear Ato Sema belew;
I am not a religous person. I think that might shock some one like you.
I also have a big doubt about people who claim to speak on behalf of a god. If there is no god their whole arguement fall flat. If there is a god My whole arguement also falls. So far, there is no tangable proof that a god exist. I can not prove what your mind fantomizes, just like I can not prove that a pink elephant do not exist. Just to inject a bit fun for you: Where did the wife of Cain come from? If your answer is satisfying I’d add some more so that we ca exorcise my “devil” with your “Tebel”. Fair enough, uh?
May 17th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
Surafel,
when you count in B.C.E it’s the other wary round so just say ‘1000-900 B.C.E’ rather than ‘900 B.C.E and 1000 B.C.E’!!! Hope you learned something today!!
cheers
May 17th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
Dear abebech,
Your repeated assertion that Axum is an AD city is a mystery to me. As your single source of reference to Ethiopian history, obviously Dr. Lapiso and Dr. Tamrat have a lot to answer for. This is what history has to say about Axum, irrespective of Messieurs Lapiso and Tamrat :
“Aksum, is a city in northern Ethiopia named after the long-lived Kingdom of Aksum, a naval and trading power that ruled from the region ca. 400 BC into the 10th century—nearly a millennium and a half. The kingdom was occasionally referred to in medieval writings as “Ethiopia.”
This is Axum at its height of power, as the seat of the Kingdom. You and I know that circa (ca.) means about or around which means give or take a couple of hundred and/or even thousands of years. Therefore it is possible for Queen S. to have had a place to hang her hat and coat in Axum. Clearly the place existed then.
Perhaps you might have mistaken the erection of the Axum Obelisk (4th century A.D.) with the foundation of the city, which is a common mistake that many people do. Axum’s archeological sites, including King Ezana’s Obeleisk, was added by UNESCO, to the list of World Heritage Sites in 1980 (A.D.!).
Cheer up my friend, after all Ethiopia is not only a face on a UNESCO poster, but also a land of ancient and brave people with world heritage sites as well as home to one of the wonders of the world, LALIBELA.
So it is official now that pink elephants don’t exist huh, bummer! ‘Yechelema Zemen’ indeed.
May 17th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
lilleswed:
Thank you, I stand corrected.
May 17th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
Sema Belew
First of all you are not interested in hearing or knowing whatever it is other than what you believe or know. It seems like you consider yourself the only one who knows and cares about Ethiopia and it’s history!! I care about only the reality not about what people say and I am open to learn or know what i didn’t know before!! If you really want to know about history and religeon, it’s your responsibility to read more and a lot more until you know well!! But here let me answer your questions and give you some tips from what i know:
1. My origin is Ethiopia. The map of ancient ethiopia is not the one that we know today. Southern, western (Gambela) and eastern(somali) part of the present ethiopia has a history of not more than 100 years under the present name Ethiopia!! The east and the west have even only some years!!
2. I don’t believe is something that doesn’t exist! I am not a believer in any religion. I believe religion was created to strengthen politics and secure power!! Let me ask you something here. Who wrote/edited and compiled the bible and when? Originally how many gospels were written? Why do we see only 4 gospels in the bible? Who are the writters?
3. The original settlers of the present Ethiopia were believed to be Bushmen. The sabeans migrated from south arabia(present yemen). They were pagans and built a temple that belongs to Almequa(God of moon) around 800-500BC. The ruins of the temple still exists in Yeha and it’s possible to visit and hear the story not the legend!!
4. Before christianity is introduced in Ethiopia around 340AD, people were practicing judaism!! So the religion was Judaism!! Check again, the religion was CHRISTIANITY, doesn’t NOT say ORTHODOX CHRISTIANITY!!! Around 7th century Islam was introduced!! on my next comment you will find what the spritual leaders say about times. next time I will tell you more depending on your answer for my questions!”
Cheers
May 17th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
Date Written
Genesis Moses ? - 1445 B.C. Exodus Moses 1445 - 1405 B.C.
Leviticus Moses 1405 B.C. Numbers Moses 1444 - 1405 B.C.
Deuteronomy Moses 1405 B.C. Joshua Joshua 1404-1390 B.C.
Judges Samuel 1374-1129 B.C. Ruth Samuel 1150? B.C.
First Samuel Samuel 1043-1011 B.C. Second Samuel Ezra? 1011-1004 B.C. First Kings Jeremiah? 971-852 B.C. Second Kings Jeremiah? 852-587 B.C. First Chronicles Ezra? 450 - 425 B.C. Second Chronicles Ezra? 450 - 425 B.C. ኤzra Ezra 538-520 B.C. Nehemiah Nehemiah 445 - 425 B.C. Esther Mordecai? 465 B.C. Job Job? ?? Psalms David 1000? B.C.
Sons of Korah wrote Psalms 42, 44-49, 84-85, 87; Asaph wrote Psalms 50, 73-83; Heman wrote Psalm 88; Ethan wrote Psalm 89; Hezekiah wrote Psalms 120-123, 128-130, 132, 134-136; Solomon wrote Psalms 72, 127. Proverbs Solomon wrote 1-29 Agur wrote 30 Lemuel wrote 31 950 - 700 B.C. Ecclesiastes Solomon 935 B.C. Song of Solomon Solomon 965 B.C. Isaiah Isaiah 740 - 680 B.C. Jeremiah Jeremiah 627 - 585 B.C. Lamentations Jeremiah 586 B.C. Ezekiel Ezekiel 593-560 B.C.
Daniel Daniel 605-536 B.C. Hosea Hosea 710 B.C. Joel Joel 835 B.C.
Amos Amos 755 B.C. Obadiah Obadiah 840 or 586 B.C. Jonah Jonah
760 B.C. Micah Micah 700 B.C. Nahum Nahum 663 - 612 B.C. bakkuk Habakkuk 607 B.C. Zephaniah Zephaniah 625 B.C. Haggai Haggai
520 B.C. Zechariah Zechariah 520 - 518 B.C. Malachi Malachi
450 - 600 B.C. Book Author Date Written (A.D)Matthew Matthew 60’s Mark John Mark late 50’s early 60’s Luke Luke 60 John John late 80’s early 90’s Acts Luke 61 Romans Paul 55 1 Corinthians Paul 54
2 Corinthians Paul 55 Galatians Paul 49 Ephesians Paul 60 Philippians Paul 61 Colossians Paul 60 1 Thessalonians Paul 50 - 51 2Thessalonians Paul 50 - 51 1 Timothy Paul 62 2 Timothy Paul 63
Titus Paul 62 Philemon Paul 60 Hebrews (Paul, Apollos, Barnabas…?) 60’s James James, half brother of Jesus 40’s or 50’s
1 Peter Peter 63 2 Peter Peter 63 - 64 1 John John late 80’s
early 90’s 2 John John late 80’s early 90’s 3 John John late 80’s
early 90’s Jude Jude, half brother of Jesus 60’s or 70’s
Revelation John late 80’s early 90’s
May 18th, 2008 at 7:09 am
ለውድ አበበችና ሊለስወድ!
በቅድሚያ በሰጣችሁኝና በማስረጃ የተደገፈ መልሳችሁ ከልቤ አመሰግናለሁ::ነገር ግን በፈጣሪ ህልውና አናምንም ብላችሁ ሁለታችሁም ላላችሁት ሙሉ በሙሉ አልቀበለውም:: ምክንያቱም ለምን ዕምነት ከሌላችሁ በኦርቶዶክስ ተዋህዶ እምነትና በኢትዮጵያ ታሪክ ላይ ተቃዉሞአችሁና ጥላቻችሁ ጠነከረ የሚል ጥርጣረ ስላለኝ ነው:: ይህ ደግሞ የዘመኑ የዘር ፖለቲካ በሽታ ተጠቂዎችና በዚህች ሃይማኖት ላይ የተነሱት የዘመናችን ተስፋፊ የሆኑ የሌሎች ሃይማኖቶች መልክተኞች የሚለብሱት አስመሳይ ካባ እንደሆነ ከተመክሮዬ ስለማውቅ ነው:: እኔ ሃይማኖተኛ አይደለሁም ማለት የስለጠነ ሰው መለያ አድርገውየሚያገምቱትን የዘመናችን ትውልድ የሚያጠምዱበት ሰልት መሆኑንም አውቃለሁ:: ከዚህ ውጭ በቅንነት እውነቱን ከሆነ ግነ የነገራችሁኝ ከልቤ ይቅርታ እጠይቃለሁ በድጋሚ አመሰግናለሁ::
አንድ ነገር ላሳስባችሁ የምወደው በዚህ የአስተያየት መድረክ መነሻነት የምናደርገው ውይይት እውነትን ለማፈላለግና አሳማኝ ማስረጃ ለማግኘት ከሆነ ዋናው ዓላማ እኔም ደስ ይለኛል::
ከዚህ አንጻር ሳየው ደግሞ የኢትዮጵያንም ታሪክ ሆነ የሃይማኖትን አመጣጥና ከሰው ልጆች ጋር ያለውን ግንኑነት በሚመለከት ያለን ዕውቀት እንደ እየችሎታችን ካልተለያየ በስተቀር ከሞላ ጎደል ተመሳሳይ ነው::
በእኔ በኩል አጠቃላይ በሆነ ጉዳይ ላይ ያለኝን ግንዛቤ ተጠቅሜ የግል አስተያየቴንና እምነቴን ከማቅረብ የበለጠ ጠለቅ ያለና ዝርዝር መረጃዎችን በማቅረብ ውይይታችንን ሚዛናዊ ለማድረግ የሚከብደኝ ይሆናል :: ለምን ብትሉኝ በሃይማኖቴ ፍጹም የሆነ እምነት አለኝ እንጄ ፍጹም እውቀትና ትምህርት የለኝም:: ይህንን ስል እምነቴ ከእውቀት ማነስ የመነጨ አድርጋችሁ ለምትቆጥሩት አስተያየታችሁ እጅ ለመስጠት አይደለም::ለራሴ ፍጽም እምነት ግን የሚሆን በቂ ዕውቀት አለኝ:: ለ እናንተ የታሪክን እውነትኛነት ለማረጋገጥና የሃይማኖታችንን ሚስጢር ለመረዳት ልባዊ ፍላጎተ ካላችሁ ብዙ ማስረጃዎችን ለመስጠትና ሚስጥሩን ማስረዳት የሚችሉ እውነተኛ የታሪክ ምሁራኖችና የሃይማኖታችን ሊቃዉንቶች ስለ አሉ በሳይበር ብቻ ሳይሆን በግንባርም ተገናኝታችሁ ጥርጣሬአችሁን ማስወገድ እንደምትችሉ ወይም እናንተ ከአሳምናችሁ የምትጨነቁበትን ሁሉ ማስተካከል የምትችሉ ይመስለኛል:: እኔ የማምንበትና በተግባርም ከልምድ የተረዳሁት ግን ብዙ በማንበብና የተለያዩ ማስረጃዎችን ከተለያዩ ቦታዎች በማሰባበስብ ማወቅና መፃፉ በውዳሴ ከንቱ ከአቅማችን በላይ እንድንወጠርና ሌላውን ሰው ዝቅ አድርጎ ማየት ብቻ ሳይሆን ፈጣሪንም ከመፈታተን አልፈን ህልውናውን ወደ መካዱ እያደረሰን መሆኑን ነው:: የሰው ልጅ በመማር ብቻ ሳይሆን ከፈጣሪው በተሰጠው የጥበብና የእውቀት ፀጋ ምድርን ብቻ ሳይሆን ሰማያዊ ሚስጢራት ተገልጸውለት ብዙ ታምራትን እንደሚሰራ ሁላችንም የማንክደው እውነታ ነው:: ለዚህ ደግሞ በሀገራችንም ሆነ በአለም የነበሩት አሁንም ያሉት የተመረጡ ሰዎች ገድላቸውና ሥራቸው ያስረዳናል::ለዚህም ነው ከሰው ልጅ አዋቂነት የእግዚአብሄር ሞኝነት ይበልጣል የተባለው:: እኛም የራሳችንን ታሪክና ቀደምት ዕምነት አቃለን፣ ነገር ግን ምድራዊ በሆነው ሥልጣኔ እየተመሰጥን ከመማማርና እውነትን በቅንነት አፈላልገን ከማግኘት መናናቁን፣ መተቻቸቱን እያስቀደምን በመራኮት ብቻ ጊዜአችንን የምናጠፋው:: አንድ ሀገር ነው ያለችን እያልን ነገር ግን ስለ ሀገራችን ዕምነትና ቅርሷ ግን አንዱ አወዳሽ አንዱ አንቋሻሽ፤ እንዱ ሲመካበት ሌላው ሲያፍርበት፤ አንዱ ያለንን አክብረን እንገንባ ሲል ሌላው የለም ያለንን አፍርሰን ወይም አጥፍተን የሌላውን መዋስ አለበን፤ አንዱ የ 3 ሺህ ዘመን ያላት ሀገራችን ኢትዮጵያ ሲል የለም የ 100 ዓመት ዕድሜ ብቻ ያላትከዚያ በፊት ያልነበረች አሁን መኖር የማይገባት ሀገር ናት ብሎ ሲፎክርባት ወ.ዘ.ተ… በተለይ አሁን አለም አንድ እንሁን በሚልበት ዘመን ያለነው ትውልድ የገጠመን ታላቅ ፈተና ነው ሁላችንንም ማስጨነቅና መፍትሄ በመፈለጉ ላይ መተኮር ያለበተ የሚለውን እናስቀድም ብዬ የግሌን ምክር ማካፍል የምፈልገው:: በመጨረሻ ሁለታችሁም ለጠየቃችሁኝ ጥያቂዎች የቃየን ሚስት ከየት ተገኘች? ለሚለውና ለምን ወንጌል በአራት ሰዎች ማለትም በሁለት ሐዋርያቶችና ሁለት አርድዕት ብቻ ተጻፈ?ወ.ዘ.ተ… ለሚሉት በአቅራቢአችሁ ካሉት የኦርቶዶክስ ተዋህዶ አባቶች በቂና አሳመኝ ማስረጃ ታገኛላችሁ:: በእኔ በኩል ከምታገኙት መልስ ይልቅ የሚጠቅማችሁ ከአዋቂዎች የሚሰጠው ማስረጃ መሆኑን ስለማምንበት ነው::በኦርቶዶክስ ተዋህዶ ቀኖና መሠረት የመጽሐፍ ቅዱስ ትርጉም አንድ ሲሆን ለሁሉም ዝርዝርና የትርጉም መልስ የሚገኝበት የዕድምታውንና ሌሎች አዋልድ የሃይማኖታችን መጽሐፍቶች መኖራችውን በዚህ አጋጣሚ ልጠቁማችሁ እፈልጋ፤ሁ ይህንን የማታውቁ ከሆነና ከአመናችሁባቸው::
ከአክብሮት ስላምታና ምስጋና ጋር:: ለመግባባት ያብቃን::
May 18th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Sema Belew,
Good. Actually it’s politics that spin the world and in different times people made wars and changed their maps so many times. I have never belittled people and undermine what they believe in! My point is not to undermine or negate Ethiopia and it’s history or it’s religion! But I wrote what I believe in and wanted to share it with others. More over I wanted to put the reality not the empty talk, not what we heard from our grand fathers and ancestors, not the legend! Humanbeings want to know from where everything started. I don’t want to believe just becuase my family was a believer or the whole country. I don’t have to look like anyone. And more over I don’t want to believe in anything before I know and have a deep knowledge about it, which means you are not even sure if you are right or not and don’t even know what it is!! For me it’s strange!!! Again as I said before I only wanted to say the reality but not undermine anything and want to give real information. When we talk about Ethiopian history we only talk about the Amhara and Tigre domination history!! Nothing more.
The other thing is that, the gospels that were written originally were about 30 weather you believe it or not. But what we find in the bible is only 4 of them. Why? and that’s why I asked you who compiled and edited the bible!! I think I know for myself but I also wanted you to know it!! I don’t need to see GOD to believe but at leaste I have to know the real histroy and way that how did everything become like this!!
Otherwise I am proud of our history and heritage! I am not in the process to denounce my Ethiopian citizenship as others do and are still doing! I am not ashamed of being an Ethiopian!
cheers
May 19th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
Ato Surafel’
This is getting crazier!
Are you sure about Aksum?
The aksumite kingdom do not belong in the Before Christ time-frame because it was an After christ kingdom.
Bushmen and Sabean did not migrated to Ethiopia. That has been the fake story we are trying to dispell. Ethiopia was not an Empty land for some Sabean to come south and lord it over. No new people came to Ethiopia to rule. The Ethiopian people, the amara,tigre, oromos, gambelans, etc have been living there in Ethiopia all along. No new comer ruled there.
We have to agree on some things inorder to continue this. Please do not confuse the issue by refering to some unfounded points like asserting that Ethiopians follow Judaism before christianity. This point in particular is related to the so caled”falashas”, who are Ethiopians. It’s only now in our time that the “Falasha” some how equated itself with the Jewish religion.
Dr. Tamrat and Dr. Lapiso have writen on that.
Now lets summarizeit.
these are the areas to cement agreement:
The date of Aksum. is it an Ad or BC kingdom?
What “histry” are you quoting on Aksum ?
Are you saying the Aksum Obelisk’s time is different thatn the histry of Aksum itself?
We have to clarify these things before anything.
Fair?
May 19th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
ለውድ ሊለስወድ፣
ለሰጡኝ ቅን መልስ አሁንም በድጋሚ አመሰግናለሁ::
ለሚጠይቋቸው ጥያቄችም መልሱን አንደሚያውቁት ነገር ግን የሚየሰጨንቅዎት ሳያውቁ ለሚያምኑ ሰዎች እንደሆነ ከሀሳብዎ ተረድቻለሁ:: ይህ ደግሞ የእርስዎ ብቻ ሳይሆን ሁላችንንም የሚመለከት ስለሆነ በተለይ የእኛው ወገኖችም ሆኑ የውጭ ሰዎች የተገኘውን ታሪክ በማግበስበስና በራሳችው ትርጉም እየሰጡ ለግል ሥልጣናቸው፣ ክብራቸው፣ ጥቅማቸው እና ለመሳሰሉት በሚመቻቸው መንገድ ለመጠቀም እኛን እየጋቱ እርስ በእርስ ለሚያባሉን ተጠቂዎች ሆነን ጉዳት ስለደረሰብን ከመቆርቆር የመነጨ ከሆነ እኔም እስማማበታለሁ::
በኢትዮጵያ ኦርቶዶክስ ተወህዶ ክርስትና ሃይማኖት በኩል ለእምነታችን ፍጹም እውነተኛነት አስረግጣ የምትመሰክርበት ቀኖናዋ፣ ዶግማዋና ቅዱሳት መጻሕፍቶቿና ማስረጃዎቿን የሰው ልጆች በፍስፍናና በምርምር ያገኙዋቸው ሳይሆኑ ፈጣረያችን በመረጣቸው ሰዎች በመንፈስ ቅዱስ ኃይል የተጻፉልንና በትውፊት የተላለፉልን መሆኑን ስለምታምን ነው:: ለዚህ ደግሞ በባህርዩም ሆነ በህልውናው ቅዱስ፣ ፍጹምና ንጹህ የሆነ አምላኳን ስለምታመልክ ከእርሱ የሚገኘውም እንዲሁ እውነትኛና ፍጹም መሆኑን ስለምታምን ነው:: የቤተ ክርስቲያንን ታሪክም ሆነ የሀገራችንን ታሪክ ግን ሰዎች በዘመናቸው የፈጸሙአቸውን ጥሩንና መጥፎውን ነገር ሁሉ ለራሳቸው ዝናና ጥቅም በሚመች መንገድ ስለሚአጽፉት ወይም ስለሚፃፍላቸው ፍጹም እውነት ነው ብላ አትቀበልም፣ አታምንም:: በስህተቱና በደካማ ጎኑ ላይም የራሷን ትችትና ማስተካከያ ታደርጋለች:: ሰው ፍጹም አይደለም:: ሥራውም ፍጹም አይደለምና:: በዚህ ከተስማማን ስለ ሀገራችን ታሪክም ሆነ የተለያዩ ሃይማኖቶች አመጣጥና ታሪክ ማንኛውም ሰው አስፈላጊውን ጥናት ማድረግና እውነቱን ከሀሰት ለይቶ ማውቁና ማሳወቁን የሚቃወም የለም:: በማወቅም ይሁን ባለማወቅ የቀደምት ታሪካችንን የሚቃወሙት ሁሉም በማስረጃ የተደገፈ ምክንያት ሳይኖራቸውና አመኑበትም አላመኑበትም የራሳቸው የቀደምት አባቶችና እናቶቻችን ታሪክ መሆኑን ሳይረሱ ከስህተቱ መማርና ጥሩውን ደግሞ አዳብሮ መጠቀምን መልመድ አለብን እላለሁ:: ሌሎችም ህዝቦች ሰለጠኑ የሚባሉትም ይህንኑ በማድረግ ነው እዚህ የደረሱት:: አዲስ እምነት ወይም ታሪክ መሥራት የሚፈልጉትም ያለፈውን በማናናቅ፣ በማጥላላትና በመኮነን ብሎም ሀሰት ነው በማለትና በማጥፋት አማኞችንም ለምንና? እንዴት? ሊያምኑ ቻሉ ብለው ሳይጠይቁና ሳያጣሩ ኋላቀርና ያልሰለጠኑ ናቸው ብሎ በማውገዙ ላይ ነው ትኩረት የሚያደርጉት:: ነገር ግን ሥራቸው ሁሉ ካለፈው የተሻለ መሆኑን በማስተማርና በተግባር በማሳየት መገንባት
ይችላሉ ::ተሳስተውም ከሆነ ወደ እውነተኛው እምነትና ታሪካቸው መመለሰም አያሳፍራቸው:: በእኛ ዘመንና ትውልድ በአብዛኛው የሚታየው ከቀደሙት ወገኖቻችንም ልምድ በተለየ መንገድ እየተሰራበት ያለው ሀገራችን ኢትዮጵያንም ሆነ የማንደግፈውን እምነትና ታሪክ አጥፍተን አዲስ ሀገር ማን? የምትባልና እንዴት ሊሆን እንደሚችል እንኳ ሳይነግሩን አዲስ ባህልና እምነት መፍጠር የሚፈልጉና የሚሯሯጡ ወገኖች ይታያሉ:: ይሰማሉ:: ይህም ተግባራዊ ሊሆን የማይችልና ለአብነት በምሳሌ የሚጠቀስበት ሀገርና ሕዝብ ለማስረጃነት ማቅረብ የማይቻልበት ሀሳባዊና ህልም ብቻ መሆኑን እናውቀዋለን :: ከዚህ እንዴት እንውጣ? የሚለው ነው ሁላችንንም ሊያሳስበን የሚገባው:: በአለም ላይ የሚኖሩ ሕዝቦች በአንድ አይነት ሃይማኖት፣ ባህልና ቋንቋ ወይም የዘር ሀረግ ተሰባስበው በግድ ካልሆነ በፈቃድ በአንድ ሀገር የኖሩበት ወይም የሚኖሩበት ሀገር አልሰማንም አላየንም:: በአንድ ሀገር በሃይማኖቱ ብቻ ማንም ሰው ሙሉ የዜግነት መብት አግኝቶ በነፃነት ሲኖርም አላየንም::
ስለዚህ በኢትዮጵያ ምድር የተፈጠሩት ዜጎቿ በተለያየ እምነትና ባህል፣ ዘርና ቋንቋ ወ.ዘ.ተ…አሸብርቃ በእኩልነት፣ በነጻነት፣ በመከባበር፣ በአንድነት የምንኖርባት ሀገር ትሆን ዘንድ ሁላችንም ግልጽነት ባለው መንገድ ተወያይተን ልዩነቶቻቸንን ማጥብብና በመቻቻል ተባብረን በጊዜአችን የተፈጠረውን ችግር ማስወገዱን ቅድሚያ እንስጠው እላለለሁ::
ሰላምና ፍቅር ለሁላችንም ይስጠን!!!
May 19th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
Dear abebech,
I am absolutely sure about Axum. Since you are so big on the Internet, I suggest you Google it.
I am also wondering who the ‘we’ is when you say, I quote:
“…the fake story we are trying to dispell[sic].”
Am I to understand that Dr. Lapiso, Dr. Tamrat and you are waging a mini campaign to purge Ethiopian history off fake stories, or are we dealing with the royal pronoun here?
I am always curious as to why a few Ethiopians find it unacceptable for their country to have a long and ancient history and a respectable place in the annals of civilization? Are you aware that we are very unique in this? I mean you don’t see the Japanese agonizing over their ancient history including their unbroken dynasty, currently officiated by Akihito, including its direct ascendancy from the sun. Why do Ethiopians think, that anything that has to deal with antiquity and/or ancient history is a sign of backwardness and therefore needs to be dispelled? Why is the Ethiopian Orthodox Church getting such a bad rap, by both its competitors and apostates, for preserving our history by chronicling events past?
What would you say if I were to tell you that, many historians, ancient and modern, Ethiopian and non-Ethiopian, state as a matter of indisputable fact that our country was founded in 6280 B.C. by Cush, the son of Ham and the father of Nimrod, mentioned in Genesis, who ascended his throne immediately after the Deluge?
Please think about it!
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:33 am
Ato Surafel;
I can see now that you are not interested about histry.
You want to know who the “We” is. The “we” is all interested individuals who care for historical truth, including Drs. Tamrat and Lapiso. Are you satisfied now? Okay.
No one is here to purge Ethiopia’s histry. Ethiopia is a very ancient couontry that do not need anyone to defend its histry. You must be miss-understanding the whole issue. The histry of Ethiopia like you said, is indeed very old. Why argue on that. But just because we have ancient histry does’nt mean that there were Ethiopian Rulers who came from other land. That is not true. There were, for example, no Yodit Gudit, no Menelik First, no lion of Judah connections . . .
The problem is, it seem to me, you are unable or un-willing to see Ethiopian histry without the story of the bible. That’s the problem.
Here is my corner:
1-You, Ato Surafel, are wrong about Aksum. It’s a historically proven fact that Aksum belongs to the AD calandar. There was no aksum before that. How can we talk when such basic fact is missing from one side?
2- You, Ato Surafel, are very wrong to use the christian bible as an historical reference.
I believe the references have caused the confusion in digging historical facts.
3- I will not reply further until such time that we agree on the date of Aksum. (hopefully the bible will be kept aside on matters of histry)
Thank you.
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:05 pm
Ato Surafel;
Sorry to comeback so fast. But I have a question concerning your calandar.
You said king Solomon ruled around 967 BCE, and Queen Sheeba was around 10 BCE. I do not know much, but, BCE means “Before Common Era”. What ever it means, 967 BCE and 10 BCE are NOT contemporaries “Just like you and me”. There is about 900 some years different between the two. Don’ you think?
But nothing seem to stop you in defending wrong conclusions.
I expect some understanding, else, I have to stop responding to some one like you who is very comfortable creating and defending his own facts. You are not entitled to your own facts, Surafel!
May 22nd, 2008 at 4:10 pm
Not so fast abebech! A person who lived in 10th century BC and 967 BCE are contemporaries my dear. It is not a question of opinion but simple cold math.
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:51 pm
Ato Surafel;
Nothing seem to pause you at all!
Just look what you wrote above. Why confuse people about calandar?
On your reply above(may 16th, 10:46 PM) your dates are 967 BCE and 10 BCE. a simple deduction tells the diff. Any way, a lot people have problems with the confusing names of these BC, BCE, CE, AD. So let’s make it simple. One basic thing is the calandar based on the “before Christ” and “After christ”(AD). Why not stick to that?
So Aksum was not built in the BC calandar. THIS IS MY POINT.
Whatever calandar is used the City of Aksum was built AFTER the death of christ(AD). And If Aksum is related with the Ark, then you gonna have a bigger problem of confusion. That’s of course unless you come up with another Aksum built 10 thousand years ago. A fit that easy-do for you as
nothing seem to stop you.
May 23rd, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Dear abebech,
I have copied the portion of the text that I posted on the date you mentioned above:
“We all know that 10th B.C.E means the time between 900 B.C.E and 1000 B.C.E.”
Clearly 10th indicates that I meant a century and not a year.
YES, I admit the “E” at the end of the B.C. was a typo. It was also brought to my attention that the chronological order of B.C.E. dates should be reversed, which I completely agree, by my good friend ‘ lilleswed’.
Here is the corrected version of that fateful line once again:
“We all know that 10th B.C.E means the time between 1000 B.C.E and 900 B.C.E.”
I am a little bit amazed at your nonchalance and readiness to rob your mother land of its history due to a mere technicality such as a typo by a mortal like yours truly.
Have a wonderful weekend my friend!
May 23rd, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Ato Surafel;
Enough about you. Can we talk about Aksum’s date?
Here are the talking points:
-King Solomon’s date
-Queeen Sheeba’s date
-Aksum’s date
From my understanding of your comment all three, that’s, Solomon, Sheeba, and Aksum are comtemporaries, and it’s only stupids like me(abebech) who question it. Is that it?
Can we move to establishing some dates on these items?
PS: admitting your error (”typo”) is encouraging, Now back to Aksum, okay!
May 23rd, 2008 at 3:45 pm
Dear abebech,
I believe two of your talking points, namely:
-King Solomon’s date
-Queeen Sheeba’s date;
are both moot now, since I have acknowledged my typo errors and you most graciously have accepted it. 10th century B.C. and 967 B.C.E makes them contemporaries.
As for Axum, I think I have provided ample evidence that it was around in B.C.E., maybe not as famous as it was in A.D., what with its world renown obelisks and all that; but around nevertheless. Besides, it has been proven beyond doubt that Queen Sheba had a seat in Axum, by the German diggers themselves, which is the core assumption in this article.
My friend, we both need to accept cold facts and stop behaving like a ‘snake oils salesmen’ of yester years who used to badger people by saying:
‘Do you believe me, or do you believe your own lying eyes?’
The facts are all there my friend, it is just a question of having an open mind and goodwill to accept them whole heartedly.
May 24th, 2008 at 9:45 am
Ato Surafel;
Thanks for the quick responce. Please note that I am enjoying our chat concerning the issues of Aksum, Queen Sheeba, and the Ark. Maybe better understanding emerge out of this.
So here are our positions on these issues:
Yours:1- King Solomon and Queen Sheeba belonged in the same time frame, that is, both lived in Before Christ time and knew each other. 2-As to Aksum, you are not sure of its date or you feel that Aksum has been existing even in the Before-Christ time period.
Mine: 1- King solomon lived about 800 years before Queen Sheeba existed. 2- Queen Sheeba has never been an Ethiopian Queen. She was a Yemeni leader of fame. 3- Aksum was a city built in the after-Christ time frame.
It’s getting easier now to quantify these notable years if we desire to dig out the historical truth.
My understanding of calendar terms is that while BC and AD are clear enough to all, BCE and CE are generating confusions. BCE is Before the common Era- meaning before the time of Christ. CE is Common Era- meaning the time frame within which Jesus actully lived. Because of confusions historians prefer to reduce the whole thing to BC and AD.
If you have a suggestion of reading materials please indicate. On my part
I strongly recommend Dr. Lappiso’s “Ethiopiana YeEthiopiawyan maninet . . . and Dr. Tamrat’s critisism of the Kibre Negest (you can find it iside Lappiso’s book extensivelly qoted).
Have a nice Memorial weekend, Surafel!
May 25th, 2008 at 11:41 am
Dear abebech,
I am glad that you are enjoying our back and forth here. I was starting to think I am the only one immensely enjoying this side chit chat of ours, about our country’s history. Obviously we are not oblivious to the fact that we don’t see eye to eye on some aspect of it, but still chatting which gives me hope (btw, have you noticed that people have totally tuned out of this post and I was wondering if we should continue this via email, thoughts?). For the sake of open disclosure, please be aware that, I am not a historian, was never interested in history and did not study it. However, lately I have noticed an all out assault on the history of Ethiopia and her contribution to world civilization, which didn’t sit well with me and hence my sudden dabbling in history.
Now that said, back to our points of contention:
-I am outside of Ethiopia and don’t have an easy access to the exalted work of Dr. Lapiso, and even if I did, I doubt it will dissuade me one way or the other (I will elaborate on this later).
-Your understanding of B.C.E. and C.E. is correct. The AD (Anno Domini: the year of our lord) era numbering for the G.C. (Gregorian calendar) was created by the 6th century Scythian monk, Dionysius Exiguus.
-The year 967 B.C.E. is still contained in the 10th century B.C.E and I still maintain that both Queen and King S. were contemporaries.
-As to for Axum being an AD or B.C.E. city; I strongly recommend a book by Amare Afele Bishaw, ‘Etyopia! YeSew Zer YeteGeGnebat YeImnetina YesiliTane MinCh’ (St. George Printing Press-A.A.). This book, if nothing else, will give you a very wide range of references related to Ethiopia. I would like to mention in passing, that the author has another authoritative work in the pipeline, coming to the book store nearest you, namely: ‘Ye Etyopia Tarik Yitamemal Enji Aymotem’.
I am sure you have noticed that Dr. Delibo Lapiso, vis-à-vis Ethiopian history, has a revisionist tendency that could be fairly characterized, by non charitable souls, as secessionist in tone. A while back, I was completely blown away, while watching his glorification of the Ataturk Sanctioned Gragn Mohammed invasions, on YouTube. I also noticed that he has this unbridled and simmering hostility towards Christianity and I am afraid also Christians. It could be my personal bias, but he came across as someone who is not happy and totally dissatisfied with the way history turned out. And trust me; I totally and completely understand where he is coming from. But, the problem is, mankind hasn’t invented a way of turning the clock back yet, except through historical revisionism which is a fantasy of sorts.
In your last post, you were kind enough to mention the fact that Dr. Lapiso’s ‘Ye Etyopyawian Maninet’ was based mainly on Dr. Tamrat’s refutation (hosing) of the ‘Kibre Negest’; presumably since the latter was, a work of isolated monks in the monasteries in ‘dark ages’. The fact is, leaving the credibility of the Kibre Negest aside, there are archeological physical facts by eminent scientist, proved beyond reasonable doubt through carbon dating, that Axum used to be the seat of power in B.C.E. You see, whether we like it or not, the physical evidence can trounce, any amount of writing based on tortured logic and culturally biased, at times out right racist, alleged scholarly work. The fact that DNA has proven beyond any doubt, that we have one common ancestor, and that lineage goes as far back as three and half million years, and that common ancestor is none other than Lucy of Ethiopia, should be a fodder for thought.
Apropos the dark ages (‘Ye Chelema Zemen), here is some food for thought:
“An age is called Dark, not because the light fails to shine, but because people refuse to see it.”- James Albert Michener
May 27th, 2008 at 10:33 am
Thanks again, Surafel,
Ethiopia’s history is indeed old. We can go back three million yrs back to Dinkinesh. No body dispute that.
Until we take back histry from the clergy and put it back in our scholar-institutions our histry will remain hidden.
Surafel, The book by Dr. Lapiso is a must read book. It’s a well researched and documented book. It’s title is very known back home. Sure, the taking back of histry away from the clergy has infuriated some people, especially those who stick to the Church tale of Ethiopian “history” of Saba, Yodit-Gudit, etc.
By the way, Gragn Mohammand WAS an Ethiopian. In Ethiopia, Muslims out number Christians, meaning that Ethiopia is not a “Christian ” country. These have made many people mad.
I am not a religious person, though my parents are Orthodox-Tewahido believers.
It’s about time we agree on our histry. The “history”presented by the clergy has purpose. The saying “You make a pope, I make you a king” is a good discription of the motive of the clergy that wrote the legends.
Let’s get this thing going.
abebech.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:41 pm
Dear abebech,
Thank you for your response and also for agreeing with me on ‘Dimknesh’ which I hope will be be a cornerstone for our future discourse on the topic.
I agree with the general drift of your argument, that it is to bring the analysis and study of our history to our research and learning institutes and not live it in the hands of the clergy. My understanding is this has been happening for over four decades now. Our history has been written and rewritten in Amaharic by the likes of Girmachew Tekle-Hawariat and others, so that we could all read and understand it without learning Geez.
I am also appreciative of the influence that churches used to have with monarchs and potentates all over the world including Ethiopia. In Ethiopia, the church used to have what is commonly known as ‘Siso Mengist’; that is one third of Government power and most important LAND belonged to the EOTC. But, we know this was not unique to Ethiopia that it was happening in all over the Christian world.
The fact remains that the Ethiopian church, through thick and thin has been chronicling our history, in fact it could be said that any historical facts over hundred years old that is related to Ethiopia could be found only from the church chronicles. You see, the church is the one and only repository of our earlier history and there is no other alternative body that was in the habit of chronicling stuff happening in Ethiopia, for us to compare and contrast it. Yes, there are some works by the European monks and adventurers who came with the bible in their hand for colonial ground clearing in the name of the lord, but once they learned that was impossible, they delved into learning Geez and dabbling in the country’s history, using the church chronicles as their main source of reference and omitting and or adding stuff to suit their own purposes.
I agree that we shouldn’t be totally and completely, that when it comes to our history, we should not completely rely on the clergy’s version of events only; since the latter might have a religious tilt to it. However, when the churches chronicles are verified through archaeological diggings as is the case at hand, then I am afraid our hands are tied. Hey, like I mentioned in my last post, people have completely abandoned this thread and it is only the two of us debating this issue. I suggest we continue this in a bilateral format such as an email, since we are not getting any feedbacks from the forum. Here is a temp email address (surafel35@yahoo.com) that I have created for the first open exchange and if you agree that we should continue this debate, please forward your response to it. If you don’t, I understand completely and that is also fine.
May 28th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
Ato Surafel;
We are not going back to square one.
We have agreed to study on the dates of Solomon,Saba, and Aksum. These are our assignments.
I also want to add as to when we start using Ge’ez alphabets. I have read somewhere that Ge’ez is about a thousand years after King Solomon.
Now on what you wrote above. “You see the church is the one and only repository of our earlier history and there is no other alternative body . . .”
I used to think like that until I learned that there are many reliable sources. It’s one reason I recomended Lapis’s book. There are inscriptions, relics,statues, archiological findings and other writers from the muslim and arabs countries of yore that shed lights on our histry. The EOTC is NOT the only one.
I hope we will focus on the dates on the three issues. Lets settle those first and then we go on the others.
Will contact you when I secure references.
abebech
May 28th, 2008 at 6:35 pm
Excellent! I will be waiting then.
June 9th, 2008 at 11:52 am
Ato Surafel;
Here I go again.
The following is from a high scool histry text book published by the Ministry of Education of Ethiopia in 1969, Division of Carriculum and Teaching Materials (grade 9-12)
- The story of Queen Sheba is well known . . . the earliest written account of the story is the Kibre Negest, written in 14th century AD- atleast 2300 years after the event.
. . . The story of the queen of Sheba and Solomon may well be true but there is no HISTORICAL evidence for it. Even thestory is not true does not mean that the Emperors were not decended from Solomon.
. . . The Axumite Empire probably began about 100AD and lasted about 700AD. (p42)
Another reference, Surafel, is from the book THE AGE OF FAITH, by Will Durant (1950). On page 156 it says “An inscription tentatively ascribed to 2300BC mentions another Arabian kingdom, Saba, in Yemen; from Saba or its North Arabian colonies, it is now agreed, the queen of Sheba “went up” to Solomon about 950 BC.